Episode 5 - Racism: Are Our Views Skin Deep?

Mondays at 7.30pm on W.

Intro :

Australia boasts a rich, multicultural makeup. After all, about 98 percent of us descended from somewhere else. Aussies pride themselves on giving everyone a fair go, and on their laidback, friendly nature. Yet the current state of global uncertainty, combined with racial problems at home, means there’s a feeling of anxiety in the air. Many of us are being forced to question how we view different cultures. How would you handle a Muslim family moving in next door, for instance? And how did you feel watching the Redfern riots?

Racism is still somewhat of a taboo topic, because of the uncomfortable feelings it stirs in us all. But tonight we’re asking, in this day of ethnic diversity and blending, are our views really skin deep?

Our Panellists:

Rebecca Gibney, Patrick Thompson, Dale Lewis, Holly Brisley and Prue MacSween

See panellist profiles

Our Guests

Dr Richard Basham

A psychological anthropologist, Richard taught at Chiang Mai University , the Universiti Sains Malaysia , the University of Colorado and the University of California , Berkeley , before taking up his current post at the University of Sydney .

Richard specialises in the study of cultural psychology and serious serial crime, and in particular policing, Asian crime, race and ethnic relations, the overseas Chinese, and Southeast Asia with special focus on Malaysia and Thailand – his prime area of ethnographic research for over 25 years. Since the mid-1980s Richard has consulted with Australian businesses and law enforcement agencies on both business and criminal matters involving Southeast Asia , the overseas Chinese, and Asian communities living in Australia .

Richard says part of the problem is the language used. He prefers the term ‘ethnic prejudice’ to ‘racial’ or ‘racist’, which he says just blocks discussion. He says people feel nervous discussing racism, for fear they will be labelled ‘racist’.

Richard says the people of Redfern are an outcast culture, not an Aboriginal culture, but a marginalised people who have been tossed out by society. With police told to look the other way, Richard says no one wants to bite the bullet with Redfern. Instead they use colonial solutions – such as putting in a ‘leader’. He says it is the little kids who suffer.

An open discussion is the solution, says Richard, but we’re not able to have that because everyone is so uncomfortable with the topic. Indigenous Australians are the great unfinished business of this country, he says. He points out that the US negotiated a very effective treaty with its indigenous population, and says Australia should do the same. He says we have to treat Aborigines as individuals and accept them as individuals.

On the topic of Muslim migrants, Richard says Islam is such an all-encompassing religion that it makes it difficult for them to become part of Australian society, particularly in a country that proudly does not religion so seriously. He says that once culture and religion are bound up together, it makes assimilation more difficult. He says Australia makes it too easy for such migrants to “opt out” of society. Instead, he says we should explicitly spell out what we expect of our migrants, for example, English is the primary language here.

Richard says there is great diversity among Muslims here. He says most have embraced the Australian way of life, but the ones that stand out are those who have rejected assimilation. He says Australians would be more comfortable if Australians of Muslim ancestry emphasized the Australian side of the terrorism issue by expressing their shock and horror at the recent terrorism events. Otherwise, he says, their silence is assumed to be complicit. Richard says that if we do have a terrorist attack in Australia these issues will seem minor, because by then it will be too late.

Ahmed Abdo and Genan Dadoun

A Muslim couple born and raised in Sydney, Ahmed and Genan say they are sometimes treated like foreigners in their own country. Ahmed, 24, is a Project Co-ordinator for the NSW Dept of Sport and Recreation’s Community Solution and Crime Prevention Strategy for the Canterbury-Bankstown area. Genan, 21, is a youth worker with the United Muslim Women’s Association.

Ahmed’s mother was born in Lebanon , and his father in Palestine . They came to Australia quite young and met here. Both Genan’s parents were born in Lebanon . Ahmed and Genan have been married for two years.

They say their visibility as Muslims attracts both positive and negative interest, but that since the 9/11 terrorist attacks they are subject to more abusive insults and gestures, particularly Genan as she wears the hijab.

Genan and Ahmed say that people have certain beliefs about Muslims and believe everyone fits into that stereotype, rather than meeting them with an open mind. They say most Australians are keen to find out more about the Islam faith and their questions are sincere, but there are still some whose questions are more like an interrogation. Ahmed says he remembers watching a news program at school and children asked him if Saddam Hussein was his grandfather. Genan recalls an incident at Woolworths where an old lady yelled at her: “Go back to your own country!” Genan says she started giggling because she really didn’t know how to respond to an attack from someone that age.

Ahmed says that as school captain in Year 6 he was honoured to have the job of raising the Australian flag every morning. He says that as a Muslim he is the greatest ambassador for Australia , because he has entered into a contract with this land, so under his religion he must put this land at the forefront of his priorities

Ahmed and Genan say one of the positive aspects of the attention is that they are forced to reflect more deeply on their faith, because they are being questioned so much. Genan says it is part of their duty as Muslims to answer any questions and enter discussions about their faith. She says there is room for moving on from the negative side of things and room for change in people’s perspectives. She says her goal is for all Australians to embrace and appreciate their differences, so that we can coexist happily. They both say the media has played a huge role in generating fear about Islam.

Larissa Behrendt

Larissa is a Professor of Law and Indigenous Studies, and Director of the Jumbunna Indigenous House of Learning, at the University of Technology , Sydney . She graduated from the University of New South Wales Law School in 1992 and from Harvard Law School with her Master of Laws and Doctorate in 1998. In 2000 she was admitted to the ACT Supreme Court as a Barrister-of-Law. Larissa has just written Home, her third book (first fiction book), which details Aboriginal people’s experiences being removed from their families as part of the Stolen Generation. Larissa has also worked for the United Nations, ATSIC and the Aboriginal Justice Advisory Council.

Larissa believes racism is alive and well in Australia , particularly in regard to Aborigines. She says there is a dangerous mentality in Australia that if we offer solutions to the poor, disadvantaged and marginalised, we’ll be impoverished as a community. She says overcoming the problems and prejudices is made all the harder because of a Federal leadership that says “no” to reconciliation, refuses to say sorry, and is white man and farmer focussed. Under John Howard, she says, reconciliation in Australia has gone backwards.

Redfern is a complex problem, says Larissa, and it is the socio-economic factors contributing to the area’s poverty – namely health, education, employment and home ownership. She says Australians need to question how they share this country with its indigenous population, how to treat each other with respect, and how to ensure government policies are targeted to reach those most in need. How can we judge ourselves as a society, she asks, as long as the vast disparity between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians exists?

Larissa says the legacy of the Stolen Generation lives on for many Aborigines, and says people must realise that a policy that ended in 1969 is still affecting many families today.

Larissa says she was very lucky to come from the first generation of indigenous Australians who had access to education. She says she was also lucky to come from a family removed from the institutionalised violence facing many others. As a strong advocate of self-determination, Larissa says the home environment of Aboriginal children is crucial in their upbringing.

Larissa says indigenous Australians are becoming more empowered but it’s mostly because of work done within the communities themselves. She says she and Aaron are still the exception for Aboriginal people, but things are changing. At the University of Technology , Sydney , where she works, there are 360 Aboriginal students. Twelve years ago there were just two. She says indigenous people need to be seen as more than either failures or successes. She says interest in their welfare has to be translated into something more than just supporting Aboriginal sportspeople or actors.

Tim Priest

A former Detective Inspector and former advisor to the NSW Police Minister, Tim Priest is well known as the whistleblower who spoke out about corruption within the police force. It cost Tim his job but opened the floodgates to internal investigations and then a subsequent inquiry that uncovered serious problems in the NSW police force. Tim has written a book, with Richard Basham, on the NSW police service and the corruption within it, called To Protect and To Serve.

Tim worked in Redfern ten years ago and is passionate about the problems there. He says it is utterly soul-destroying to see the cute young kids at such a tender age in Redfern, just ruined. He says these kids are being lost in a system where neither federal nor state government will stand up and take responsibility. He says the suburb of Redfern, right next door to Sydney ’s CBD, is the worst example of that failed responsibility – in education, housing and health. He says the recent riots were coming days beforehand. Tim points out that p olice with little or no funding are taking these kids in, giving them breakfast and dinner, helping them with their homework, showing them computer skills, and taking them on outings to the zoo. Similarly, he says the Police and Citizens Youth Club is an oasis for many kids, offering friendly faces away from the problems at home, and it can be the one decent break these kids are going to get in their lives. These are great ideas, he says, but they get no government funding.

Tim also says fixing Redfern is a two-way street. He points out that there are many adults there who teach kids to hate cops. Tim says we need a Royal Commission to determine how to tackle the problems of Redfern.

Tim is also very critical about the criminal elements of Middle Eastern culture. He says France, Holland, Germany and Britain have faced these problems, but instead of taking a lead from these countries, Australian law enforcement and social structures are taking too long to face up to the problem. He says it will take 15 years to catch up to those countries, and by then it will be too late.

Tim says no country or city is dealing with their crime problem properly. He says the exception is New York , whose zero tolerance strategy has seen ten straight years of falling crime rates. Tim says the chardonnay set, represented by the ABC and the Sydney Morning Herald, and the rest of the do-gooders say it’s xenophobia, but they don’t live in the real world. Tim says we have not seen the worst of middle-eastern crime here, and we have very good reason to be frightened.

Christine Anu

A talented dancer, singer and actor from the Torres Strait Islands, Christine started her career in the early ‘90s studying dance at the National Aboriginal and Islander Skills Development Association, and went on to perform with Bangarra Dance Theatre. In 1995 her debut album, Stylin’ Up, stayed in the charts for more than a year and gave her a hit with the Warumpi Band song, My Island Home. That song became Australia ’s unofficial national anthem, especially when she sang it to the world at the closing ceremony of the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games. Since then, Christine has followed a new direction in musical theatre and film, with roles in Rent, Moulin Rouge, Dating the Enemy, the Matrix films and 2003's Kissing Frogs. She released her second album, Come My Way in 2000 and three years later, her third album, 45 degrees. Christine has two children, Kuiyam, 7, and one-year-old Zipporah Mary.

Christine says everyone has a story to tell, and that music is a wonderful way of doing that. She says it really is the universal language, crossing all cultural and racial barriers, and is the way she can share her everyday life experiences. She says comedy is also an important way to breakdown any racial barriers. Christine says by laughing at herself she gives her audience permission to like her, because she clearly does.

Tahir Bilgic

Tahir Bilgic is Australia 's only Turkish stand-up comedian – at least after eight years of stand-up comedy he says he’s never met another Turk in the same line. Tahir took Sydney ’s stage by storm when he debuted in the 1995 Triple J Comedy Contest and won a final place. He then won first place at the famous Harold Park Hotel as Comic Of The Year.  Since then he has become a familiar face on TV, appearing on The Footy Show, Hey Hey It’s Saturday, Laughing Stock, Recovery, THE COMEDY CHANNEL and the SBS series Aussie Jokers.  Tahir starred as Habib in the SBS comedy Fat Pizza, touring the country with Pizza Live on Stage in 2002 and appeared in the Pizza film. Tahir also wrote and directed his own show Habib On Parole at Sydney ’s Enmore Theatre in 2002 and his new production Lord of the Kebabs, The Fellowship of the Hummus enjoyed sellout success earlier this year.

Tahir says that as a comedian you have to able to laugh at himself. He says it’s just the Australian way, and he always uses it as a tool to bring an audience around. He says minorities in Australia have to be able to poke fun at themselves. He says “racial differences” is too serious a subject, so he tries to use humour to lighten the mood.

Tune in to Mars Venus, Mondays at 7.30pm on W.

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