Mars Venus TV - Episode 5

Intro:

This show will touch just about everyone. It's the juggling act all families are facing - the dilemma of bosses versus babies.

Now we know Superwoman has been found out - she dropped her bundle a few years back, but have women learnt anything from her downfall?

Is it possible to be a good partner, parent and employee? Do men agonise over balancing family and jobs the way women do? And is parenthood coming a poor second to success at work?

We'll look at all those issues as we analyse the great juggling act.

Our Panellists:

Rebecca Gibney, Alex Perry, Derryn Hinch, Prue MacSween & Kerry Armstrong

See panellist profiles

Our Guests:

Sandra Yates:

One of Australia's top women executives, Sandra Yates is also a mother who knows the bosses versus babies juggling act from both ends. From her years as a struggling single mother to chairman of one of Australia's biggest advertising agencies, Saatchi and Saatchi, Sandra says not much has changed in that time for working families.

Awarded an Order of Australia for her work with women's organisations, education and the arts, Sandra says her great passion is her family. She also says her great fear is a return to the kind of poverty she went through as a single mum.

Sandra married at 18 and had her daughter when she was 20. The marriage ended and her second relationship produced a son. By the time she was 27 Sandra was on her own with no support from either father, and for the next eight years she raised her children alone. She has been happily married for the last 25 years.

On the subject of families, Sandra says we have to take a holistic view of integrating kids and work. She says society needs families, our social cohesion depends on them so it is up to all of us to help them.

Sandra says the government needs to call a bipartisan summit to look at how families integrate with work. She says that, having paid lip service to this for 30 years, business leaders are the only ones who can fast track this, and they are just not doing it.

As for fathers, Sandra says she knows that lots of men want to be better dads but they're not picking up the housework. But, she points out, housework is not that important - she approves of a 'benign neglect situation' - but the point is mothers need extra support.

Sandra says feminism was always about choice and she respects the choice of some women not to have children.

You can find out more about Sandra's work at: www.saatchi.com



Emma and Patrick Tatum:

Emma and her father Patrick have a story that will touch many parents and kids. Patrick works long hours to bring up his three teenage daughters on his own, and, frustrated by his absence, Emma recently wrote a poem, which she read out on Sydney breakfast radio. Parents driving to work across the city almost turned around and went straight home!

Here is Emma' poem:

WORKAHOLIC

Your desk is always occupied
With someone else's thoughts
Your work comes first
And I am last

But time is always bought
By someone else who's yelling
And complaining on the phone
And the silence leaves me crying insecure and alone

Your problems and your money
Are too much for you to take
Ever since she left you for the sky
Your heart is gonna break

Yesterday today tomorrow
Are about the same,
Your familiar deja vu of life
Has played its game again

And it's left you beat and broken
And face down upon the floor
And I'm selfish and I'm blinded
And still asking you for more

Please forgive me I am sorry
For the selfish things I've done
And it's haunting and it's killing me
And the urge is strong to run

As you lay face-down upon the floor
Your work is never done
And you're wishing for a holiday
And on and on I run

And I don't know when I'll stop
To take a breath to get some air
Coz you are gone, you're gone forever
And I know you really cared.

Emma says she read the poem on radio because she wanted to see if it was any good, and she wanted to share something with teens who have parents who work day and night and don't get to see much of their children. Emma says food doesn't matter, nothing matters, she'd just rather have her Dad with her. Even though Patrick, a conveyancer, works from home, the long hours he puts in limit his time with his girls.

Patrick says he used to have an adjoining house with the girls' mother but gradually the girls came to him and his wife moved away. He says he did not like the poem nor the fact Emma read it out on radio, but he says he is very aware of Emma's need for expression.

Patrick says he felt guilty when he heard the poem. He says it was pretty clear cut that he could do more. He says he has to balance the feeling of "I'm doing so much already" with the need to dig deeper to increase his communication with his daughters.

Patrick says the government has done nothing to help families. He says he even talked to his local member about the lack of morality in dealing with families, and said his eyes just glazed over. He says he's very keen on Sandra's idea of a bi-partisan summit.

You can contact Emma and Patrick at: andata@mail.com




John Morse:

At 56, John Morse counts himself as really lucky. Having spent most of his first go at parenthood away from home forging a successful career in tourism marketing - rising to Managing Director of the Australian Tourist Commission - John is now playing Mr Single Mum to his six-year-old daughter Juliet. With three sons, aged 31, 27 and 24, from his first marriage, John says the difference this time round is financial freedom, patience and experience.

John separated from his first wife when the boys were 13, 10 and 6. He spent a lot of time working and travelling when they were young, including a period when he actually lived in London while the boys stayed in Sydney. His first wife also worked. John also spent six months as a house husband, which he hated, describing it as a thankless task.

This time round, however, is a total revolution, he says. He attributes this to the resources he has and the accomplishments he has already achieved personally and professionally. Juliet spends every second week with John, since he and her mother have split up, and he says the arrangement works very well. He says the mothers in the area are very supportive, 'brilliant' in his words. He is absolutely thrilled when they entrust him with the care of their children and is honoured that they accept him as the caregiver in this way.

John says there has been a big change in the way we perceive house husbands and having children later in life. He says it is almost trendy for men to have children later in life these days, but not for women. He says he really regrets society's negativity about older mothers.

John also points out a growing trend among younger workers these days towards 'portfolio careers', which emphasise a far greater balance between work and lifestyle.

Anne Perrottet is a stay-at-home mother. She says she could not bear to be in the workforce but admits that for the past 25 years she's run her own company. It has 12 members and two company directors, that is, Anne and her husband John, and their twelve children!

Ranging in age from 23 down to 5 years old, Anne and John have five girls and seven boys. John is a World Bank small business consultant. They say they've never had to tackle family planning issues as they are both Catholics. Anne has four siblings and John three, and they say they've come on Mars Venus to show people large families are fun and make a great contribution to society, and that what they do, they do for a reason.

The Perrottet family live in Pennant Hills in Sydney's north-west. All the children still live at home, except the eldest three who moved out around the age of 18.

Anne and John say there are plenty of tough times, but in the end it all works out. Anne says at times she has felt exhausted and thought "I don't know if I can do this again", but then she always falls in love with babies. She says she once discovered she was pregnant while John was overseas and wondered how she would tell him, as emotionally and economically it was a tough time. But as soon as he returned he knew. He said he was sitting on a beach on the other side of the world and just knew. His response was "Don't worry, we'll handle this".

Anne describes herself as a real perfectionist, and says it's difficult because life is not perfect with 12 kids. But she says life teaches you priorities, and the kids having fun is the first one. She says the kids have taught her so much that if she only had a few she'd be a "pain in the butt". Anne also says there's a bit of merit in not having enough food. "It's not bad for kids to feel a bit hungry," she says. "There have been lots of times when there was not enough food and friends have given, which teaches not just us, but the people who give to us."

John says every day is a financial challenge, but that he would go mad if he worried what may happen at the end of the week if he went shopping today. At one stage they had eight children going to the same school. John says he made out a proposal and put it to the headmaster to try to offset some of the fees. The head said great, the school board said you're joking, so he had to pull out all eight kids and find another school.

They have one car, after the last one, a 15-seater, blew up. This one is a joint purchase with one son. There's also a lot of walking and bike riding, says John. Anne and John have ensured the children are enterprising, and have to work for pocket money if they want something. Anne says she sometimes puts the children on as cleaners if they want to earn money.

Anne says: "The oldest had my youth, the youngest my experience". She says Christmas time is fabulous with lots of family concerts. She loves watching the little ones experiencing the older ones as they go to 21st parties and start to gain more confidence. One big difference today, Anne says, is that today's youth have an easier ride because the necessity is not there to burp, feed and change babies further down the line.

John says you just have to be positive and confident. "We always find a way to sort things out," he says. "One explanation is divine intervention because the maths just doesn't add up".

Lisa Forrest:

The former Olympic swimmer, TV personality and author represents a growing trend towards older mothers. Statistics show there are now twice as many women having babies after 35 than there were ten years ago. For Lisa, 39 and married, having her first child, Dexter, at 38 was surprisingly easy, and she believes women like her are secretly whispering "it isn't that hard", although the media would have you believe otherwise.

Lisa says she always wanted to be a mother but wanted to do lots of other things first. Having captained the Australian Women's Swim Team at the 1980 Moscow Olympics at the age of just 16, Lisa says she was very focused on wanting to be successful after her swimming career ended.

She also put off parenting until she found the right person to share the experience, marrying in her mid thirties. She says when she married Jesse her biological clock hit her like a freight train. Rather than age, Lisa says it's the influence of your mother that affects your own approach to motherhood. Lisa says her mother strongly advised her to achieve some goals in life before starting a family. This was something her mum didn't have the opportunity to her do herself, because she already had three children under-five by the time the 70s' women's liberation movement was in full swing.

Lisa says she is happy she delayed motherhood, although now she has Dexter she also thinks, "Why did I wait?". Lisa says the first five years of a baby's life are the most important, so she has put herself in a position to be there for Dexter. She can continue her work by writing from home and says she will be trying for another child soon, though admits she probably would have waited a few more years if she weren't almost 40.

Host Rebecca Gibney sums up the bosses versus babies debate saying we can only do our best and what we feel is right for us. And, try at least once a day to stop and take in the view - smell the roses as they say!

Tune in to Mars Venus every Wednesday at 7.30pm on W for women, and again on Thursdays at 1.30am.

Episode One: Is Plastic So Fantastic?
Episode Two: Where Are All the Blokes?
Episode Three: Who Strays and Who Stays?
Episode Four: Does Fat Matter?
Episode Five: Bosses v Babies: The Juggling Act
Episode Six: When Too Much Is Not Enough

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